UPDATE MAY 25 2011 (from an excellent Canadian Running Magazine article by Mihira Lakshman)
Race director Gerry Walsh doesn’t believe the Blue Nose marathon needs a makeover after the route confusion and other problems with the race in 2011, following a string of similar mishaps in previous years. However, he has accepted an invitation from local competitive runners for a focus group for making changes. We’ll see how much change gets done if he is going in with the mind set no makeover is needed.
The many loops were to keep the geographic footprint small due to emergency routes and hospital zones, supposedly. You can buy that or not, but it doesn’t have to be. Plenty of other space around. Reversing on some of a less convoluted route is an acceptable option if looping is in place now, allowing runners to see elites coming back without crisscrossing. His focus group will tell him that and plenty more good suggestions from what I’ve been hearing by some people who will be there.
Gerry also regretted his controversial statement about elites “damaging the fabric of the event”. He clarified a year later he meant he wasn’t going to pay international athletes wanting appearance fees, but stopped short of apologizing. Ah, do you know good PR spin when you see it? I guess local elite athletes not participating wasn’t a concern then. And here we all thought we had a big fuss on our hands!
Good luck to the focus group! We’ll be awaiting to see what progress they’ll be able to make!
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2011 was the eighth running of the Nova Scotia Blue Nose marathon in Halifax… and they still messed up in guiding people to stay on the course to run it correctly! It is a shame that the lack of leadership from the few at the top can lead to actions that spoil the efforts of so many other great volunteers, and ruin the day for so many runners who have trained and ran hard for the race. Below are details from sources on the course and the Chronicle-Herald, put together, for a feature on the problems and not the race (the Herald did that very well).
Unnecessarily convoluted course
With plenty of land to run on between Halifax and Dartmouth, the course organizers keep choosing an unnecessarily convoluted loop that could cause a figure skater nausea from going round and round and round. Then the part in the two parks also have potential turn offs where people have taken mistakenly, to extend or shorten the official route. Look at the map below to see what I mean. See if you can find your way to your friend’s house with directions like that!
Blue Nose Marathon Course Map
It’s a course that is unnecessary hilly, with all the loops they put in on the mainland peninsula that is essentially a hill rising out of the ocean. It’s also not that scenic as they claim, with about 5 miles of 26 along the waterfront/bridge, and the rest in the cities and woods. It’d be a lot more scenic if they ran it around the Bedford Basin along the Bedford Highway, with a loop around Point Pleasant Park via the Halifax waterfront, starting and finishing where it is or at the Sportsplex in Dartmouth.
Poorly trained course marshals
The organizers didn’t train all the course marshals properly so runners who train whole seasons for this race end up getting lost.
There were confirmations of marshals who didn’t receive any instruction and were just dropped off with a sign and no map.
One marshal left the post as walkers and runners were upset with the marshal, probably from lack of training given, so two experienced runners I know started marshaling the corner. What if they hadn’t???
There was another corner where the 5k and 10k (ran the day before) runners had to turn, while those running longer distances today were to go straight, where another fan had to start marshaling as there was no one there for a good part of the day!
Can you believe this of a big race with over 10,000 registrants among all the events put together, after eight years of repeated mistakes??? How many times can you err and not learn???
Consequences for top runners
What were the consequences of all this? Well, it’s hard to say overall, but this much has been confirmed.
The 2nd through 4th place marathon finishers ended up running an extra four kilometres!!! They turned in the wrong direction on North Street, running an extra loop through Halifax’s north end instead of across the Angus L. Macdonald Bridge, according to co-chair Gerry Walsh in the Chronicle-Herald today. Due to the gap they had on the next pack, their final placings were not altered, though running about 46 at hardcore pace couldn’t have been fun if you had been training for 42.2 km.
More than half the top six half-marathoners went off course by smaller amounts. The top half marathon placings were affected outside the top 2. For example, Doug Vincent was running comfortably with a group racing for third, but ended up in 11th at 1h 24min, with his Garmin GPS showing him at 21.1 km in a time of 1h 17min. Some of his group also went with him. Scott
Those were elite runners who would have been monitored carefully, obviously, leading the race… and they went off course! I’ll deal with the pack runners later.
Back to the marathoners, though, as it was the marquee event. Three of the top four runners ran an extra four kilometres! These were people who had time and prize money at stake, who the people turned out to see, and who you can guarantee weren’t running the race for recreational purposes! For that, they were rewarded by being thrown off by four kilometres??? This wasn’t four blocks. Four kilometres is a huge discrepancy from the already tough 42.2 km marathon distance, which, if you don’t train for as these runners wouldn’t have, would be a huge blow to your race plans!
Then there are those who have won age divisions or gender categories and were disqualified because they had ran the wrong route. The initial winner of the women’s marathon was disqualified when it was discovered Emile Caron of Quebec she and several other runners accidentally missed a loop of Citadel Hill. Three 5K lead runners also got DQ’ed in 2009 (thanks to the Chronicle-Herald for the history). Sure, it wouldn’t have been fair to have given them the prize, but when you have a guide cyclist and course marshals who misdirect them, how do you think they felt? What kind of compensation could you really give them for it? Do you think they really care about free entry to next year’s race as compensation that was offered to some who were misled last year?
Consequences for other runners
With the top runners, it was easy to identify who went off course. It’s a lot harder for those more in the pack. It’d be hard to know how many ran the proper course, but the percentages don’t look good if the top 4 runners who were watched the most carefully went off course!
For those other pack runners, many of whom will only ever run one marathon in their life, those who went off course, they’ll have to live with their “official 46.2 km time” for the rest of their lives. That’s provided they finished because, as said, when you train for 42.2 km, the extra 4 km could be a killer, especially on the already tough hilly course that Blue Nose already is.
Meanwhile, others runners ended up missing turns but cut off chunks of the course route. Some won’t ever know but will get to live with their “official less than 42.2 km” time. I’ve known very experienced marathon runners who ran short and were still convinced they suddenly pulled off 15 minute personal bests to brag about, and even got age division prizes as they were in the pack somewhere. Those not experienced will likely never know.
Oh, the slower walkers and runners who started early had nobody on the course to guide them, either, and some of them also went off course.
Do you know if you ran the right course?
Are you absolutely sure knowing quite a few people might not have this year? I’m not necessarily suggesting you went off course by 4 km. There were plenty of loops to accidentally repeat and/or cut out that were of smaller distances. Do you remember any intersections or turns where you weren’t sure where to go, or were confused by the streams of people going in several directions? Have a good look at that map again and try to remember if that’s the route your ran.
And what are you going to do if you didn’t think you ran the right course, or knew you ran the wrong course? What might your time have been?
Repeat offenders
Sadly, this isn’t the first time all of this stuff has happened with the Blue Nose marathon. I ran in the inaugural race in 2004 and there were similar problems then. There’s been similar problems most years since that I have heard about, or experienced myself like missing a turn off in Shubie Park one year because nobody was there. I only had to run an extra few hundred metres, as it turned out, so no big consequence, though I’ve divorced myself from the race after that third time. Runners have complained again and again, but officials just brush it off, saying runners should complain in a constructive manner rather than complain anonymously.
Seriously. Do they need emotionally sensitive formal complaints to realize they have a problem?
Step up or shut up
The organizers then complain about how the elites, for the most part, don’t participate in the race because of the hills, weather and every reason except the organizers’ shortcomings. Well, the elite runners probably know a few thing or two about races to avoid, and they don’t fear anything in Halifax considering a lot of them train here all year, through hills and weather and wind and all. The Blue Nose organizers should step up or shut up and get things right for a change.
Speaking of shutting up, Gerry Walsh’s “brilliant” comment in 2010 regarding elite runner participation doesn’t exactly endear elite runners to the race.
“(elite runner participation)’s not on the radar screen and I don’t expect to ever see it happen. I really think that would damage the fabric of the event.”
– Gerry Walsh, Blue Nose Marathon co-chairman in 2010 and 2011 (via Nova Scotia elite runner Eric Gillis’ blog)
Gerry’s ego is obviously even bigger than his mouth. He’s clearly the yellow stain in the fabric here. Gerry followed it up with a less “brilliant”, but nevertheless similar dismissive comment this year.
“When you run an event in a city like this with (so) many people in the relatively small geographic footprint that we operate on you end up crisscrossing a number of streets. There was signage there, but it may not have been sufficient. We do a post-race review of all aspects of the event, including incidents like this, so definitely we’ll be reviewing it for next year’s event.”
– Gerry Walsh (in today’s Chronicle-Herald)
Uh, Gerry, given the “changes” made over the past years that haven’t worked, the change needs to be you and possibly some others, cause you and your people obviously aren’t too open to see your errors. There is no small geographic print, Gerry. That’s your doing! The crisscrossing of streets is your doing cause there’s a lot of the peninsula that’s not even used, never mind the rest of Halifax and Dartmouth! The signage is your doing cause a few trained volunteers would have been nice at any crisscrossing, for the love of running! You getting the message now, Gerry? You drop that ego and your running times would be a lot faster, too, never mind benefiting the runners.
By the way, what does the other co-chair have to say about this? Surely s/he can’t be this bad at media presence and public relations!
Change preferred
Hopefully, the organizers will make changes or they will be replaced for change rather than just shutting up. The Blue Nose Marathon event does serve this community extremely well to get people in shape. The volunteers generally do a great job to make it a good event. It isn’t their fault if they aren’t provided the right training, or that the course is unnecessarily complicated. It’s time the race got some new organizers and make some major changes. Sponsors should definitely demand this. I’d like to ask Scotiabank, Johnson Insurance, Goodlife Fitness and other sponsors if they got to where they are today by putting up with repeated incompetence like this?
People should also stop putting up with the errors. Look elsewhere to run if things don’t change. If most of the elites are doing it, maybe they should think about it. There are plenty of great marathons and half-marathons in Nova Scotia, the Maritimes, Canada, the US and around the world. Reward yourself for your training while you’re at it instead of having to pay good money to run in your own streets in what is becoming a questionable experience. Demand better, people! You deserve better!
Congrats, condolences and results links
Congratulations to all who finished the races on the Blue Nose marathon weekend. Hopefully, you didn’t go off-course, or got corrected quickly enough, that you got a fair time. Some specific congratulations go to:
- Greg Wieczorek who ran the course in a record 2:28:53
- Mylene Sancoucy who won the women’s division in 3:00:56
- Frank Reinhardt, who came back despite having been left stranded to go off course last year past 20 miles, to run a great 3:03:24 for 7th overall
- Dave Nevitt who finished 9th overall with a great time of 3:06:14, winning his age division easily, and had a whole intergenerational family participate and win awards
- My other running friends who participated on the weekend
2011 Scotiabank Blue Nose Full marathon results here, courtesy of Sportstats, here
2011 Johnson Insurance Blue Nose Half-marathon results, courtesy of Sportstats, here
Condolences to the second to fourth place marathon finishers (Scott Clark, Kevin Tulloch and Ryan Nutbrown), who ran the extra four kilometres and came in around the three hour time. One can only wonder the time you might have ran if you hadn’t gone off course because it’s not as simple as linearly interpolating to get that time. Best wishes for better times and luck to come for you in your marathon running future. Same goes for the top half-marathoners who went off course… or anyone else who went off course, for that matter.
Does (sponsor) Johnson Insurance have a Misled Runner policy?
They should given what’s going down at the Blue Nose all these years! :-)
You half-marathoners who went off course should check!
Thank yous and look forward
Finally, thank you to all those who turned out to work and/or volunteer to make the event happen this weekend. The Blue Nose debacle is not a fair reflection on you and your efforts, but those at the top need to face the consequences of their incompetence. It’s too bad some of you felt really embarrassed to have been associated with this event afterward (and voiced it on social media) for all your efforts. Let’s hope leadership listen and make the appropriate changes for the event in 2012 before more people get their big day ruined!
Oh my goodness! As a newer marathoner, I would be completely livid if I’d gone through a full training cycle only to be blown off course. I hope the organizers do get some better signage and training for the volunteers.
It’s bad enough to wonder all the what ifs after a regulation marathon…Sounds like agony to wonder what your time could have been without an additional 4k.
I assure you, Blue Nose won’t be on my list until I hear that the improvements you’ve suggested have been made.
Thanks for you post!
Thanks for your comments, Renata. No amount of compensation anyone could give me would remove the disappointment of doing a marathon incorrectly as badly as some might have done in the Blue Nose. I’ll remove this post and update once appropriate positive changes have been made, not just what I suggested. I’m not out to unjustifiably get anybody, but point out some harsh truths so people know what they’re getting into. It’s just when the truth is really harsh, as in totally unacceptable, then so is the condemnation.
Here’s an idea: man-up and volunteer. If you really want change (rather than just the opportunity to bitch) join the planning committee. You obviously have some expertise, perhaps share that in the corporal world rather than from behind the safety of a keyboard.
Hi Geoffrey,
That’s a fair challenge and suggestion, but I’ll offer a compromise and here’s why.
I know of quite a few experienced volunteers, many of whom are runners, who have management and/or planning experience and education, and some of whom are on various committees. They haven’t been able to make enough of a difference and I will easily acknowledge they are more experienced and capable than I am. Some have far bigger reputations professionally and/or athletically, too. They haven’t been able to make enough of a difference. Should I be naive or egotistical enough to think I could make the difference, or be the straw that breaks critical mass, for change?
It’s a fair challenge and good idea, but I don’t consider myself more capable than others I know already working at it and not yet succeeding in achieving significant change. However, that doesn’t mean the general public doesn’t deserve to hear more of what the mainstream media won’t cover, those who aren’t privy to some of the same information I was, which was why I wrote this post. And I am accountable for my actions. My name is on the site. I’m an avid runner. I’m around and can easily be found. It’s a small city. There’s no safety behind the keyboard. I knew there were risks writing this post.
Show me the capacity for real change and I’ll be there. I promise. I’m sure I’ll be lining up behind others with better ideas, suggestions, greater experience, training and such, but that’ll be just fine.
Minh
Minh,
I appreciate you responding, but if people waited for organizations to develop “the capacity for real change,” before contributing, then there wouldn’t be a lot of change in the world.
You have the capacity: you’re a citizen of this community, you’re an avid runner (while you don’t know me, I’ve certainly seen you train–I’ve seen you bound effortlessly up hills, it’s evident you’re an elite athelete). You’ve written a tome on the inadequacies of this event, which certainly indicates a level of knowledge with event production.
“Should I be naive or egotistical enough to think I could make the difference, or be the straw that breaks critical mass, for change?”
Maybe, maybe not–but you could be a positive contributor. What’s the worst that could happen: you might actually be able to make an impact?
If I want change (be it in myself, my life, or an organization) I ask myself two question:
1) What is it you want?
2) What are you willing to do to get it?
If I have difficulty answering question number 2, then I’m forced to rethink question number 1.
The fact is this: over 10,000 people had an amazing time this weekend, and while I can’t imagine the disappointment of going off-course, especially when I’ve invested the kind of effort necessary to run a marathon, the experience of a handful simply does not overshadow the positive experience of the many.
Yes, this is an event that attracts over 10,000 participants–and because of its size change doesn’t happen immediately. But it does happen. There were significant changes to signage this year, more kilometer markers, improved volunteer training etc. While it isn’t perfect, to paint this event with the same inadequacies as a few years ago is simple fallacy.
You’re obviously passionate about running and this running community–attributes that would make you an ideal volunteer.
My challenge still stands: come volunteer.
Geoffrey.
Wow, thanks for the detailed and encouraging reply, Geoffrey! That’s very kind of you.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, it comes down to me not having that much vested interest in the race in me holding my ground, though I will offer something more after I explain myself more.
There is nothing I’m saying that’s “revolutionary” or “innovative”. It’s all common sense, which is why the frustration after years of repeated mistakes. It’s nothing different than what many experienced runners are saying. I have nothing new to say or add. If there comes a chance to provide feedback, those who have volunteered before, ran the race more recently than I did, more elite runners, professionals with more management experience, etc. deserves the chance to speak first. On my site, I don’t have to wait for anyone in queue to talk. Bring those others in and they deserve to talk first given I’ve got nothing unique to say. That’s respect I’m showing them cause I’d just be showing up to say the same thing louder than them and that’s not respectful of the dues they’ve paid. They’re wanting to see change like I would, and they’d like to see it more because they may run this race one day, changes or not. I won’t be, guaranteed, unless there are major changes to the route, and I won’t be pining about it, either. I’ve done it 3X on similar routes (well, once doubled up during the tropical storm year) and that’s plenty for me.
Now, if we get past that first step, as I was saying, I promise I will come out because I believe I can offer something then that may be different than the common messages I’ve voiced for change. Whether it’s route ideas, or maybe computer simulation of crowd distribution to see if runners may run into each other, or force volunteers to have to ask “is this your first or second time around?”, or otherwise, then we’re talking. I wouldn’t bother on the current course, or similar course, where one wouldn’t need a simulation to see problems coming. I’ll even promise to enter if we can get a course free of such problems, whether few crossing points far apart, out and back, loop or similar course. But until I have something unique to say, no sense trying to steal other people’s thunder.
As for me being elite, you must be thinking of the other male Asian runner in Halifax (hahaha). That’s a half a joke cause I’m sure there’s more than two, but Doug Hayami is the elite. I am running 3:15-3:20 marathons these days, likely slower on this course. That’s definitely not elite! Never was at 3:07 best. Never considered myself such, either.
As for the handful who went off course, not as in lost but doubled something or cut off something, you’ll never know how many did. There were walkers who did extra, I know that. There were other runners who knew they did extra because they don’t run those times, but can’t prove it definitively (6 min extra feeling great and fast for an experienced runner is positive, but it doesn’t hold up in court). If you can’t track a bunch of the top runners, what’s the odds none of the not so well watched runners got it wrong?
Anyway, thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I am offering more than before if there is change, but have explained why I’m going to wait till others speak first and will stick to that. You’ll get your challenge returned in plenty should potential for change come true and are genuine.
Minh
I noticed that the route for the 10K that was published in the Chronicle-Herald was different from the one in the route map supplied in the race kit. I drove the route the night before according to the Chronicle-Herald’s map and even got out and walked several times to make sure it was right. Needless to say on race day I did not recognize the route. Elites usually don’t complain, but when we pay $75 we expect to get a certain level of service. Us bitter complainers often do volunteer, but let’s not forget that FOR PROFIT races that rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars should be able to get the essentials right. This, by the way includes an accurate course map and volunteers who don’t have Downs Syndrome or some other form of mental retardation pointing you in the right direction. And we don’t hide behind keyboards. Come see us at our races!
Jonathan Menzies
Bluenose 10K winner.
Thanks for your comments, Jonathan. Can you clarify who is “us at our races”? And who is hiding “behind keyboards”? Me? I’m not accusing anybody of hiding behind keyboards. I point out that Bluenose has elite and experienced runners otherwise giving them good advice in person.
you should what happened in Mississauga last weekend?
http://www.mynextrace.com/Mississauga_Marathon.html
Goodness me, Peter! Some race directors and people behind these races just don’t get the races are about the runners and not them! That’s a debacle of a whole different level, but for entirely different reasons. That’s politics. The situation may have politics behind it, but it’s common sense to start with given the complicated course that has failed most, if not all, 8 years to keep everybody on course. Thanks for sharing that, though. Geez!
This is an interesting discussion. The conflict lies in something unique to the Bluenose marathon. This race has from its inception cast itself as the people’s race. Having attended as both a runner and a spectator, I can attest that they have succeeded at this splendidly. Unfortunately the “everyone’s a winner” culture of this race seems to diminish the accomplishments of serious runners. Most of the recognition for the winners is provided by the Chronicle Herald and there is little celebration of elite performance by the Bluenose organization.
Elite runner’s are a different breed but they have always been a crucial precence at big race events. It is arrogant to think you can exclude them without eroding the running spirit that brought the recreational runner to the races in the first place. What other sport allows the average participant to compete alongside the elites? I can appreciate Minh’s point of view. He knows the sacrifices and effort required to be a top runner and can’t not be offended by the fact that this enormous event, which probably has more influence over running culture in this province than any other, has alienated the members of the running community who best embody the sport. This isn’t so much about the facts of Scott Clarke going off course as the feeling that it doesn’t really matter beacause he took a chance coming to a fun run with a course designed for slower runners and walkers. It’s unfortunate that the Bluenose has monopolized all the things that make for a great race: a downtown venue, huge participation, big sponsors, spectators and media attention. The reality is that this race has become a success in spite of the shortcoming’s that Minh points out, so where is the incentive for change? I think the best solution is competition; another race of similar scale but that recognizes the value of attracting elite runners to the sport like so many of the other big races.
Neil
Thanks for your reply, Neil. Definitely some excellent and interesting thoughts there.
I do think the Blue Nose can be a race for both the people and the elites. I think you’re right that the race doesn’t have incentives for change with increasing participation. usually the main indicator of success. I don’t know the extent of complaints, but if some people aren’t sure about having done an extra loop because it’s the first, and possibly only time, they’ll ever do the distance (half or full), they likely would not complain. And those who accidentally cut off distance won’t ever complain. But it’s not just the elites who have problems on this course. People wanting to break 2 hours or 2 hours 30 minutes for the half, 4 or 5 hours for the full, etc. have pride in their times, too! Probably prouder than the elites who may say they ran a certain time on this tough course, but who won’t be talking about the one full or half they did to take it off their life to do list and the time they have for it! If you’re running it and having to answer if it’s your first or second time around at certain points, or wait till waves of runners cross your path for a break to dart through, as many I have talked to did at some point, it’s lost time and they’ll forever remember it with their times to wonder how much time they lost.
I’m not sure there is capacity for another race of similar size in Nova Scotia given the population of 40% of the province is in HRM and school kids are out for summer so you wouldn’t get a fall marathon with nearly the same youth participation which made up a sizable portion of the registrants. So let’s hope change can be made for the Blue Nose to be an event for both. A significant course change, but nothing extraordinary for a new route, would do the trick. Out and back so the common runners can see the elites coming home? Loop around the Basin? Double simpler half loop going in reverse the second time around so again, the common runners can see the elites? Nobody’s asking for the world here. Just a little change.
Finally, I would only humbly say I have an idea of the sacrifices and effort a top runner makes to be elite. I am close enough to some to know. I haven’t done it to their level, even though I can be proud of having done a few 100+ mile weeks, lots of speed training, 2400+ mile years, etc. I haven’t blocked out as much in my life for my running as most of them have. I admire them for that, but it wasn’t for me.
Thank you for this information it will help me make my decision about running the half marathon this year. I was looking for a race map when I stumbled on this. I am a barefoot runner and have been training for the half marathon for 6 months now. When I ran the Navy 10k last year there where issues with runner running off course and since it was a loop with 5 and 10k runners there was more confusion. They had one person directing runners right at the finish line weather to continue and do the loop a second time or go over the finish line. I was directed to go over the finish line when I knew I had to do another loop. The finish line was blocked so you couldn’t go through so I had to stop and get help going under a rope. Then I had to continue the second half of my race knowing I wouldn’t have an official time. It is so frustrating and you do go over in your head how hard you trained to have something like this change the course of your race. Well, I got over it but I do not want to repeat anything like this again. I really appreciate this important information.
I also have to mention that I suspected there were issues regarding the route. Someone I know did the half marathon in an exceptional time for them and I wondered if the distance wasn’t accurate. This info. might explain things.
I will continue to train but unless they post a map and I can do practice runs I won’t be running it. I did volunteer one year as cycling support on the Dartmouth side and was extremely frustrate with the lack of disorganization. There was no training and me and my son did not receive and direction as to our role. Thank fully I have a background in nursing and was able to take charge when a runner could not continue due to hypothermia. As it was it took 30 minutes to get a vehicle to come pick him up while he stood in the cold rain on the side of the road. My experience with the Bluenose marathon has not been good and I don’t want to experience it in that way as a runner.
Thank again.
You’re welcome, Emma. It’s just unnecessarily bad with Bluenose. They have all kinds of knowledgeable runners telling them otherwise on their committees but they don’t listen. There is the United by Running marathon, half and other distances out on the Cow Bay Road area this fall, if you want an option. You can also train hard in summer rather than winter. I’ll have more in the future but you can Google it online.
Minh